Politics

I figure we need such a topic.

Or is it just that I have a night off and think I am supposed to try to channel discussions.

I think it might be the latter, so eventually I might delete this, unless it becomes a popular posting place.

Oh, Frazz, watch what you just did.

I'm a VERY angry and depressed Democrat and I've just about given up.

GOOD! Go for it, Abrahammy!!!

I get pissed but usually it is so sideways to mainstream politics that I cannot even think how to post about it. But I am very interested.

I was enraged at Bush's opportunism with the VA tech thing. I was GLAD NBC showed the videos, because they made me understand what kind of fucked up killer we were dealing with.

abrahammy wrote:

Oh, Frazz, watch what you just did.

I'm a VERY angry and depressed Democrat and I've just about given up.

Abrahammy, go for it. We can be angry and depressed together.

My friend and I were just talking about the VA thing and saying they should not release the identity of the killer in these situations because it glorifies them and then you get people trying to top it, thinking this is their chance for their 15 minutes of fame.

While we've been (rightly) grieving over the 30 people dead at VT ( and do not misunderstand me; that was a horrific tragedy and it's rocking the nation to such a profound degree that even Simon Cowell was forced to wipe the smirk off his face) in Bagdad yesterday several HUNDRED people died as the insurgents continued to fight back. In the past few years, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead. Thousands of Americans dead - more than who died at the World Trade Center.

Over muddled intelligence.
A personal vendetta between Bush and Saddam Hussein which had zilch to do with 9/11.
Over political opportunism.

Clinton got impeached for having the impulse control of a 13 year old boy, but this man killed thousands of people. Just. Not. Right.

I had a therapist once, who said when I was endlessly trying to understand some hideous behavior done to me, "Understanding is the booby prize of the devil".

I thought that was very witty and funny coming from a therapist, but it did make me think about my need to understand in order to move on.

I did not get over that need, which is why I was fucking RELIEVED to see the VA Tech killer's videos.

But I did get it that ideally one would wish to go toward the goodness rather than concentrating on the badness.

But I still cannot do that before I get on a visceral level why the badness has happened.

So, still working on it.

*****

Meanwhile...Clinton's Bosnia (all sorts of killings of innocent people) was very bad in my book, as was Ted Kennedy's Chappaquiddick.

I still prefer their votes to Bush's but I really detest liars and of all parties.

Well, Frazz, it's happened because... evil exists. Folks can get religious about it, they can get fatalistic about it, but after reading those blogs it still didn't make any sense to me.

His perception of the world is not compatible with mine at all. He's mentally ill. I don't know why crazy happens. I don't know why some people get abused and they end up OK and others get abused and they turn into something ugly. Could be chemical. Could be spiritual. No idea.

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I still prefer their votes to Bush's but I really detest liars and of all parties.

That must make election day very depressing.

I have no idea why it happens to some and not others, the life abuse that leads to killer stuff...but I am still glad they showed the videos.


Yes.. election day is always tough for me, LOL! (though the choice for me has never lead to me voting Republican... i sometimes go for the Green Party types over the Democrats, though).

New ruling on late term abortions:

The one person I knew well who had a late term abortion after finding out that the fetus was very genetically damaged, was ripped so tragically by having to make that (in my view correct...no way was that mother, or any adoptive parents or institution I have ever heard of, able to care for such a damaged being) decision makes me so horrified that they are putting the control of such decisions in the hands of politically biased courts.

Aw geeze, I am on a rant, now. I did meet once, a child, loved by his parents, who was so genetically damaged that he identified only with a vacuum cleaner. The parents were the sorts of loving creatures (and they had about 4 healthy kids, first) who COULD deal with the damaged little being they gave birth to. The kid was about ten, but was the size of a two year old, and all he could do was crawl and make vacuum cleaner noises. He was already a miracle from still being alive (though he died within another two years). Cannot imagine it. Cannot imagine not having a choice about what to do about it before hand.

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I still prefer their votes to Bush's but I really detest liars and of all parties.

WORD. Both do their share of lying. Neither party is the great savior of this country. Both have faults in the extreme. I wish people would revolt and vote independent. The two part system in this country is a huge monolopy.

Clinton and Obama.. I sure wish I was really rooting for either of them. I desperately want the Bush/Cheney sympathizers to be gone forever.

The prospect of Huckabee or Romney being my President makes me culturally, morally, artistically and religionly SICK.

But a woman or a black man..I just can't see either one of them getting elected, and both of them are trying so hard to do what their PR advisors are telling them to do that they have lost all semblance of authenticity.

What is it with our choices? I mean, maybe it's because the democrats are so damn scared to state an opinion. I just don't know.

I actually do think Obama would have a chance. If you can believe it, I actually have a friend who's a George Bush republican and she doesn't mind him. I still think Hillary is way too divisive.

Well, now. Obama won the Democratic caucus race in Iowa!

I am starting to get just a little bit excited.

If Huckabee wins the Republican nomination, Obama could well win!

I want it on record I CALLED IT! I just felt that he didn't have the baggage the others did. He's charismatic and doesn't tend to act like an ass. If he can remain above the fray and not attack and just stay classy, I agree frazz. I am willing to bet the Republicans are a little bit nervous right now.

I am thrilled Obama beat Clinton. As you know I can't stand her so

As a republican I have no doubt that a democrat will win the presidential election. Bush saw to that. I saw some women interviewed after the Iowa Caucus last night and they said Obama didn't make them vote for Obama, Bush did. I think there is a LOT of that going on.

My politics..meaning how I think things should be run...are so far left of anything mainstream, it is always hard for me to root for anybody, but I do believe that Obama is the only candidate that has any hope of improving our standing in the world, much of which hates us.

I suspect that he will not be able to muscle things trough on the inside of Washington, which Clinton might be able to do, but in terms of terrorism, the ony one who might prevent another 9/11 is Obama. He is willing to talk, and interested ion what they have to say.

Everybody else, Democrat or Republican, is interested in proving that the USA is not a wimp.

That does not work. It just makes people who hate us hate us more.

Well, I'm firmly of the opinion running that every prominent Democrat running is less of a trainwreck than every prominent Republican running. I think, after the last eight horrific, humiliating, shameful years, we have GOT to turn ALL the Republicans out just to establish that this kind of dismantling of our Constitution and the Rule of Law over terrorist witchhunts for Bush's security simply will not be tolerated and absolutely cannot ever happen again. I am not saying that there is no chance we will ever have a Republican fit to lead again - but it MUST NOT happen THIS year. This particular crop does not need impeachment. They need to go to JAIL. Bush, Cheney, Condi, the people who ordered the waterboarding, Rove, everybody involved with our foreign policy, everybody who deliberately fed false intelligence to the Congress, the whole lot of them. And Republicans who are innocent of these crimes just need to scuttle back and stay clean and take their short - term lumps for not keeping their leaders under some semblance of control.

Clinton vs. Obama? Huh. I'd probably have voted for Edwards. She's abrasive and competent and she's got a lot of negatives. Her husband would have been a good president if he'd been able to keep his dick in his pants. Obama is charming and charismatic and a terrific public speaker and I have not one clue how strong his actual administrative skills are. So I don't know what the right decision is. Agreed that he's probably going to be much more palatable to the Muslim world right now than she is, and that may be a VERY good thing. It may be that electing a highly intelligent, articulate, persuasive black male with ties to the American Muslim community (middle name: Hussein) may be just the thing to make our relations with the Middle East turn a corner.

So far I agree with Obama on most issues. Hey I would be the FIRST in line to vote for a woman if I thought she was competent and honest. I do not think Hilary. The canidate that has takrn more money from drug companies , insurance corp and defnse contractors is NOT a Republican . It is Hilary Clinton. I have no confidence in the fact that she will do anything to fix the health care system in this country. i actually do think Edwards has some good valid points. But we need Torte Reform and I don't think he is the man to do that. My main concerns are health care , war and education. The no child left behind act has got to go.

I am watching the New Hampire debates on ABC now.

The Republicans are up first.

As much as I disagree with all of them on some major policy points, the only one who is standing out as a liar and a vicious person is Mitt Romney.

I had no particular opinion of him before. But WOW is he nasty and a liar about the other people's positions.

McCain, on the other hand, keeps showing himself in this debate to be an honorable man.

Ron Paul, the old geezer who is obsessed with inflation, actually makes sense on the economic issues.

Fred Thomson just comes across as having not much of a thinking capacity.

Huckabee is not nearly as stupid as I thought he would be, but his positions are just anathema to me. But he does not seem like a liar.

Guliani is Guliani. I might enjoy having dinner with him, but I do not want him anywhere near running the country.

The longer the debate goes on, the more I am finding Romney absolutely repugnant. He got the last word (he spent the whole debate smirking at the others, and repeatedly insisting on extra time -- the only candidate who did that -- and insisted on being the last Republican who spoke. YUCK!!!

Now the Democrats are coming on.

Half an hour in on the Democrats:

Hillary is the Mitt Romney of the Democrats.

5 minutes later: Hillary is not as bad as Mitt Romney. She is not lying outright about her opponents' positions. But she is coming from a false and accusing place, which is similar.

I t really has little to do with the warmth or coldness of her personality. It has to do with her seeming to want to win without having her heart dedicated to any humane prinicples. She just seems to want to win, which makes her a loser to me.

But she is not out and out lying the way Romney is.

In this debate tonight, among the Democrats, I actually liked Richardson the most.

We did not watch the Republicans. We will not be voting for any of them. We did watch the Democrats.

I have the uncomfortable feeling that the person I really want to see win does not have a chance in hell.

Who is that, Abrahammy?

I am not genuinely rooting for anybody yet.

If McCain were a liberal I would vote from him, as I like the honorable ones. But he is against many things I am adamantly in favor of, so no way.

All the Democrats, tonight (less with Richardson) seemed to be in a state of furious panic and defensiveness. That is just not a good feeling. It was very hard to tell anything about what they might be like as a President as a result, regardless of their official positions on issues (Kucinich, who was excluded from the debate tonight, would be closest to me, though not identical) on the issues.

Update: Richardson on energy gets my vote. He may not have the matinee idol value of the others (or Madame of the Universe value of Hillary) but Richardson keeps expressing his views, and not PR spin...I may well fight for him.

Still live blogging here.

Hillary is probably speaking the literal truth with (paraphrase) "Words are not action" "I have been an agent of change" "I worked to create health care for kids" "This is what I have DONE"

But... she sounds like a bitter woman.

I understand bitter woman-ness. I have my own moments of that. Life is harder if you are a woman who wants to call the truth as you see it. You do not get much support.

BUT if you present yourself as that, but also cave in and take positions that are not from your soul, but rather from your notion of what will make you more powerful, you lose on all accounts.

More update:

Who ever is the nominee, Richardson should be the VP. He is the one, out of this four, who has the brains and the soul.

Richardson at the end expressed his views about arts, technology. education..utterly without bullshit, and then won my heart with a wonderfully self-deprecating joke about his support for a Supreme Court Justice who was appointed by his idol, JFK, but now that he has discovered that the justice was against civil rights and Roe vs. Wade, he was clearly mistaken.

Ok, for now,, I want Richardson. Because he does lacks matinée idol charisma, I don't want him as Presidential nominee, as he would not get elected, if say, McCain were the Republican nominee, but whoever gets front position, I am fervently wanting Richardson in there.

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Who ever is the nominee, Richardson should be the VP. He is the one, out of this four, who has the brains and the soul.

Richardson at the end expressed his views about arts, technology. education..utterly without bullshit, and then won my heart with a wonderfully self-deprecating joke about his support for a Supreme Court Justice who was appointed by his idol, JFK, but now that he has discovered that the justice was against civil rights and Roe vs. Wade, he was clearly mistaken.

Richardson did a superb job in the debate tonight; he questioned the litany of "change" suggesting that Bush's incredible incompetence does not negate the value of experience. He will NEVER get elected, and neither will John Edwards, who I think is the person I would vote for were the Texas primary tomorrow. He seems to be genuinely opposed to the corrosive hold corporate interest has over American policy.

But either Obama or Clinton, the two weaker candidates, will take this nomination, and I find some solace in the ideas that:

1. We will break down a barrier by electing either a woman or a black man;
2. She or he has GOT to be better than Bush.

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But either Obama or Clinton, the two weaker candidates, will take this nomination, and I find some solace in the ideas that:

1. We will break down a barrier by electing either a woman or a black man;
2. She or he has GOT to be better than Bush

Yep, my thoughts, too.

I would love to see a woman president, but I agree with everyone here that Hillary ain't it. I know she doesn't want to be mistaken with her husband, but he just has an ability to walk into a room and the minute he shows up onscreen, you feel better. She will not win. She's just too divisive.

I wish Edwards had gotten a little more time to develop a following, but it became a Clinton-Obama race early on that everyone else was just playing catch-up.

Thanks for the play-by-play, frazz! I myself am a proud tree-hugging liberal. Republicans have managed to make that a bad word. I choose not to. We need to take the word back.

They make all the things I am the devil: tree hugger, liberal, left-wing, artist, woman... commie pinko... secular humanist... smoker ...former slut... single... feminist... friend of gay guys...