Former Reality Show Contestants

Frazz you are a riot!

This is new footage Abrahammy. Vickilyn posted it at The Clack House late last night. She said he had to cancel some gigs like singing The National Anthem somewhere and something else that was scheduled for this weekend because of it.

Honestly, I wish him luck. I'll check out the show if it makes it to the air. I thought he did fine on The B&B. But my guess is you are right Frazz and it must not be a major role or he would know something. Unless he just did not want to say for some reason.

I don't care if its a major role or not. At least he's getting into things that he wasn't before.

And its one thing to shoot a pilot, but its another to get the show picked up to appear on TV. I read that George Clooney shot like 6 -7 pilots that never made it to tv and then bang! he went into ER and the rest is history.

Abrahammy, I just saw your posts at GS, so you probably have seen that this is current footage.

If a person is shy or not - either that is something someone thinks themself or is known by people close to them. The rest of us are just guessing.

I am just going off my encounters with him. He wasn't even remotely shy.

Perhaps that's how you decided to view him, fraz.

I still say you never can say for sure what is inside of someone else. Sometimes things look one way to the outside and they are very different from what is taking place on the inside. And sometimes one can be shy in some situations and not in others.

This is coming from me, who has times that I have to battle with shyness. I have learned techniques to overcome it so that it doesn't paralzye me when I get out with other people, particularly in business situations. That's why I feel pretty confident saying that no one really knows what one battles inside themself.

Also, just because you're in the pilot, doesn't mean you're going to be in the show if it's picked up. But fingers crossed for Constantine that everything will work out in his favor.

I don't think you can "interpret" shyness. He is just not a shy guy. If you ask anyone, they will tell you he's not shy. At all. Even a little. I know shy people. Personally. He is the opposite of shy. He likes to give the image he is shy and bashful and humble and not at all priggish, but from every single personal encounter I have heard of and witnessed, he is all of those things. Frazz and I have had personal encounters with him and know people personally who know him, well, personally. I don't think you can judge any personality based on the face they put on publicly. I think our face-to-face enclounters and talking to people who know him are much more accurate. So, I think it's "guessing" if you've never met him, but "knowing" if you have actual personal face-to-face experience and talk to people who know him intimately, which I have.

I will give you this: I think he is one of the most insecure people on the planet and he uses smarminess and mugging and eyefucking and pretending he's shy and hamming it up and being OTT to COVER UP the insecurity.

Lau, I'm going to give you a little history of me with GB, just to show you I didn't come by thinking he's a big greasy windbag without even knowing him.

When I first watched AI, I was a major fan. Such a major fan, in fact, that I personally went, with another fan, to a mall to purchase make-up for him (after he did Nights on Broadway) and went with yet another fan to deliver a huge bouquet of roses I helped purchase, along with the make-up, to the AI offices. I was a big, girly, 14-year old girl when I talked about him. You can go deep into the TwoP archives and find the rose story and go deep into the GS archives and find me squeeing about him to my heart's content. I even met him right before he performed at The Key Club.

Want more? I was at the AI finale for his year. On the way to the finale I crashed my car and the airbag deployed. I continued on to the finale. I later found out my car was totaled.

Want more? I went up to Athan right after the finale and said, and I QUOTE: "Hey Athan. We know who the REAL American Idol is, don't we?". Then I, and a few other fans who went to the finale, hung out with Athan and squeed and talked with him.

So, you see, when it came to fangirls, I was mighty high on the list.

Then I started hearing stories. Like a good little fangirl, I rejected them. Blamed the other person for his rude obnoxious behavior. I still thought he was the adorkable, sweet, shy greekboy he seemed.

Then more stories. More. MORE. Then I talked to people who were personal with him. Then I had dinner with his ex gf. It was at that point when I could no longer deny it. He was an ass. A huge ass not worthy of the love or the time or the effort I was putting into being a fangirl. I was totally disillusioned.

When I heard he was saying horrible things to women who were his fans (like Abrahammy) is when I knew he was irredeemable. These women, who love and adore him and spend money on his CD's and fly out to see him, could not have said something to him that was so horrible as to have him answer them in a crude and heartless way. I'm sure anything I said to him could be answered like that, but not a true fangirl.

Now, I also realize that because I find him fake and phony and obnoxious, I find it's affected how I view his performances. I do think, if he became a human being, that he could be really really good.

I can respect Abrahammy, because she's come to understand that he's a huge ass, but can still admire him as a performer. This, even though he has called her out personally and said very harsh things to her.

I cannot understand anyone still thinking he's this adorkable shy guy, when everything we've found out says otherwise.

It is certainly my interpretation that he is an asshole, but it is not any particular "choice" I conclude he is not even remotely shy. I have interacted with him myself, several times, with him, watched up close as he interacted with his band mates, watched up close as he hit on a trio of GS women, watched up close as he was horribly rude to his friend Giddle,... to say he is not shy is hardly an attack.

Indeed, who knows what motivates anybody, but he manifests all the bona fide symptoms of being unshy.

Insecure, yes, but perfectly happy to speak up in wildly noisy and exhibitionistic ways. That is why I, who am plenty loud and at least a tad exhibitionistic myself, feel completely confident in saying he is a little less shy than me, though he is a fuckload ruder.

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I have interacted with him myself, several times, with him, watched up close as he interacted with his band mates, watched up close as he hit on a trio of GS women, watched up close as he was horribly rude to his friend Giddle,... to say he is not shy is hardly an attack.

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Insecure, yes, but perfectly happy to speak up in wildly noisy and exhibitionistic ways. That is why I, who am plenty loud and at least a tad exhibitionistic myself, feel completely confident in saying he is a little less shy than me, though he is a fuckload ruder.

Yes! This is why I wanted to state my history regarding him. I feel like frazz does, that people think we are "attacking him" when we are stating an opinion based on personal encounters. So, it really makes my hair stand on end when someone who doesn't know him at all says "you don't know". I do know.

I also want to state, yet AGAIN, that his own behavior is the reason I think he is a disgusting pig. Not because of one story some girl or two girls told. THAT MANY people cannot just be against him for the sake of being against him. HIS FANS have no reason to say he told them horrible things.

This is what gets my back up with his fans. That they automatically think EVERY SINGLE PERSON who says ANYTHING REMOTELY BAD about him is "attacking" him or "a hater".

Why do some stars get good press and some get bad? Why are some stars known as being nice and philanthropic and generally get good press and some have a reputation for being an asshole? Because some are nice and some are assholes. When the mainstream media (not gossip sites) are saying someone is an asshole, they probably are.

I used to work on a studio lot and let me tell you, when someone gets a reputation for being "difficult", the public doesn't know the half of it.

Look, I know sometimes a not so nice story gets out about Clay, but for the most part he is known as being a genuinely good guy. Yes, some stories get out that he might have been fussy or cranky, but the majority of the stories about him are good. In other words, they don't describe HIM as an ass, but just say there was a particular incident where he might have been not quite as nice as he usually is (no, I'm not saying the story is necessarily true, I'm just making a point). With GB, they describe HIM, the PERSON, as a jerk.

When almost every single story about someone concludes the guy is a douche, I've gotta say...he must be a douche.

Not that it is my place to say, but Lau knows him. Just so you know she doesn't just speak with blind faith.

FWIW I truly don't think there is a shy bone in his body, even though I have never met him. To me shy men don't jump on the bones of every woman (that they don't even know) that they possible can - and in groups. Maybe I have a different idea of shy though. Sorry, but I think they whole shy/humble is the best acting job he does. Sorry Lau, just speaking my opinion on this one. So many things he has done on stage and off just say "SOOOO not shy"

Also, what GE says about what people say in the media etc. With Clay, the people who have worked with him and toured with him rave about how nice he is. The whole cast of Spamalot have said they love him and Hannah said he is the nicest person she has ever worked with. All of the AI season 2 kids who toured with Clay loved him. Look at what the season 4 fellow castmates have said about Con. Seems nobody liked him at all. Maybe Bo though. There just seemed to be absolutely no love at all! He wasn't even with them after shows. I remember feeling really sad for him. Now I can't help but think there was more to it. There were probably good reasons - whatever they were. All I know is there sure was no love for Con from the others and I am way over thinking that it was all because they were "so jealous" of him. There also does not seem to be any love from fellow actors from BoCo. Of course it is possible that he has changed since his college days.

I think we all totally understand being "infatuated' with a celebrity and wanting them to be just like the image they portray on TV because we like what we think we see so much. I know C~ can be incredibly charming when he wants to be. We have all seen it on TV, and there are numerous documented fan encounters where he is the epitome of nice and generous. But, for every reported pleasant encounter there is a not so pleasant one that all of us tried to deny and push under the carpet for a while, until we each had our rude awakening about him. It seems there is a common thread that each of us had some kind of personal or close encounter with him that changed our minds about him and then continued to change as we found out more about his dark side.

My feelings about him changed the minute I saw him perform on the AI tour. He sounded ok and all, just projected a "I don't give a shit and am better than all this" attitude that permanently changed how I perceived him. I am a no bullshit, tell it like it is person and consider myself quite perceptive when it comes to sizing up a person's MO. Everthing about him screamed "ASSHOLE". In the group numbers he acted disengaged and bored. He did'nt really acknowledge the feedback from the audience. He looked sloppy and unkept.

He had lots of fans there and lots of GreekSpeaker's with signs ,
blue lights, and the works. I remember feeling more connected to Anwar and Anthony in comparison to Con after seeing them perform live because they projected more warmth and sincerity. Anwar was much better then I expected. I also though Carrie came off as cold as ice and
acted Divaish...at least she kind of earned it though I guess.

Oh well I was terribly infatuated with him. I even flew to NJ to see him for God's sake. Eventually the overwhelming bad behavior stories just turned me off totally. Once maybe it is not his fault , but over and over , NO. At some point I had to realize only so many times could it be the other person and not him. Calling his fan's names was the final nail in the coffin for me. There is no way that can be justified as far as I am concerned. For me the talent does not outweigh the behavior. I just don't care what he does anymore. I don't wish him ill , I just don't care.

Everyone has their opinion on this stuff, my own included. My own view of this man is no more wrong or right than any of yours.

I'm not in a position to comment on what you ladies said about your experiences personally with him. They are your own. Just as mine as my own.

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Not that it is my place to say, but Lau knows him. Just so you know she doesn't just speak with blind faith.

I know him as a fan of his in the NY/NJ metro area. As such, I have had the opportunity to see him and talk with him many times and in a variety of situations. My experiences have been totally different from what you folks described during the AI and betty time. Can I claim to know him? I know him as a fan in those situations. That's the only point I have been trying to make here. But for some reason, I feel like my experiences are not as important as the ones you all have had. I guess what he did long ago is never to be rectified to some of you. And that's fine.

I think Con disappointed many people who had such high expectations of him becoming a rock star or PFTSOB becoming a huge act. Maybe because I didn't ever see him going towards that arena, and maybe because I have never been very fangirly, is the reason I'm still very much in his camp at this point.

There are other reasons why I will continue to support this guy, reasons that right now I don't feel I want to post on a public board. But I will say that Con showed a wonderful side of himself to me during a very difficult period in my life. He is a special person to me. In that sense, I probably know him in a different way.

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I do think, if he became a human being, that he could be really really good.

With the way you feel about him, GE, I don't think this is possible.

There are many fine stories out there about him, but some people choose to discount them.

ETA: I just saw aerwin's post after I posted mine. I agree, calling fans names really sucked.

AETA: I will no longer be commenting on this topic! Not worth it!!

Your opinion and feelings Lau are every bit as valid and important and right as anyone else here. Certainly more than mine since I am one (if not the only one) here who never met or even saw him in person. I am just not buying shy and humble. I do not think he is all bad. I know there is good in there. He does charity work etc. I am so happy that he helped you through a rough time! He scores brownie points for that big time!

I hope you continue to post you feelings, opinions and insights into Con. No reason to back down on expressing your feelings toward him! I LOVE reading what you have to say!

FC, what you had to say was awesome. Sometimes I can be crass. You basically said what I said, only nicer.

Lau, you are entitled to your opinion. What got mine and Frazz' back up, I guess, is when we are basically told we are attacking him and don't know what we're talking about.

As I said before, Lau, I may seem like a cold-hearted bitch, but I melt like an iceberg if people mea culpa in a way that makes me believe they are really and truly sorry for any harm they have caused another. If he went on GS and publicly apologized for making the fans cry and for all the ranting he does on there, I would consider that something must have happened in his life to make him a changed man and I would give him another chance. This is the truth. I don't say things I don't mean.

I believe in the situations Lau knows him he is, as Luca says, on his best behavior. Charming and nice. This gets me angrier as that proves he is capable of being charming and nice, but instead chooses to go on his own message boards and scream at fans for having the unmitigated gall of saying they didn't like his haircut.

The stories that were "coming out" were not the half of it. You don't want to know the things I know. He is way way worse than people think. I have seen all the sides of him. There is not "more to him". Only more crass disgusting behavior. Keeping one or two isolated stories secret is fine. His widespread bashing of his fans and being hurtful and mean, is not good to keep a secret. It's a reward for bad behavior.

An isolated story here or there, that's OK. Then I could see a "two sides to every story" situation. Almost everyone, except for GS'rs, saying he's a an ass, well, I have to believe he's not a nice guy.


Being rude to a photographer is one thing. Hurting the people who buy your CD's and fly out to see you, is the worst kind of crime. There is no "other side" to that or "looking at it from another angle" or "more to him". Just, absolutely not.

Lau wrote:

Perhaps that's how you decided to view him, fraz.

It was the comment about me, not about Constantine that set off the flurry.

Thanks GE! Lords knows I am usually the one who doesn't say things quite right

For what it's worth:

Constantine seems to be to be rather insecure, and I think he does lash out when he feels like he's been put on the offensive, justifiably or not. He's done that to me. However, he can also be reasoned with, and if he finds you are not an adversary, he will go out of his way to be kind and correct the rift. That has also happened to me.

He is very touchy, but that's not all he is. Whether or not each of us as individuals is willing to put up with that is up to us. Here's the thing. I'm simply never going to be able to hate Constantine. I can be annoyed by him, hurt by him, and I can disagree with things he's done, but all that really tells me is that maybe I should step back and be less visible to him and just enjoy the songs I like on that CD of his, and be satisfied that our last conversation was very kind and conciliatory.

But... he's not shy.

frazzle wrote:

Lau wrote:

Perhaps that's how you decided to view him, fraz.

It was the comment about me, not about Constantine that set off the flurry.

Okay - I didn't realize that. Some of my comments were just analytical think backs. More like I was saying previously, everyone has an opinion that is their own.

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I believe in the situations Lau knows him he is, as Luca says, on his best behavior.

Maybe he's afraid of me..... I used to be a teacher.

My problem is, that as a (minor) celebrity, he acts out in anger and hostility first, and asks questions later. In other words, he does it backwards. He first assumes you're "attacking" him, and then you have to reason with him like he's a child for him to calm down and act like a person.

Also, I've seen some of the things he's gotten angry about, and they would not be perceived as attacks by anyone in their right mind. A question is asked that he twists into something else and then starts NAMECALLING. Really? Namecalling? He's a man, for God's sake! There are too many people making too many excuses for inexcusable behavior.

It also upsets me when women turn against other women and automatically assume it's not the man's fault and she must have done something to provoke the attack, when attacks are never ever OK.

He has most definitely gotten too close to his fans. Unfortunately, he is trying to squeeze the life out of his last 5 minutes of fame.

Lau, teachers are scary.

Well here is a point in this discussion we totally agree on GE:

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It also upsets me when women turn against other women and automatically assume it's not the man's fault and she must have done something to provoke the attack, when attacks are never ever OK.

The things that I have seen and had done to me from other women "friends" in this fandom are a tale all their own.

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Lau, teachers are scary.

I think that's it!

Well, Lau, it does my heart good to know you agree on that "woman against woman" thing. That always upsets me.

I dislike the ENTIRE woman against woman thing. All of it. And the subject matter that causes the rancor is beneath worthiness for the pain it causes.

Lau: Obviously you know C~ on a personal level and he was truely nice to you and you feel good about it, well good on him. I do believe he is probably capable of having a heart...I just have seen and heard him act out childlishly in front of and behind the camera on numerous occasions which has negatively influenced my perception of him... permanently. I could give a rat's ass if he is sensitive or not or insecure. None of that interests or excuses bad behavior in my mind. He also has not done anything worthwhile recently to entertain me either and I am highly skeptical of rumored projects he has lined up just based on his track record, so really he is just a blip on my radar.

It does'nt bother me that your perception of him is different than mine and that nothing I could say or do could change that special feeling you have about him. I still enjoy discussing our different views. But, the other side of the coin is the woman against woman thing that was brought up. If we feel negative about him based on our experiences or what we have decided is our perception of him based on years of observing him on AI and after...then like you said, that is our reality and you have to be able to accept that nothing you can say or do will change that either.

I guess my question for you is: Knowing that many of us here are not C's biggest fans anymore and that we really are only moderatly interested in his goings on and will continue to say negative or not so favorable things about him...does that make you feel bad or mad personally or that you feel the need to defend him to us?

I think whatever ones own opinions are about an outside subject, including Constantine, are great to express.

It is when things start to be about each other that I think it best to tread very lightly.

Boards blow up once post start being about each other.

frazzle wrote:

I think whatever ones own opinions are about an outside subject, including Constantine, are great to express.

It is when things start to be about each other that I think it best to tread very lightly.

Boards blow up once post start being about each other.

You have a good point here, Frazzle. That line you alude to is one to be respected. I hope I have not crossed that; wasn't my intention to do so.

I do want to respond to a few things in Luca's post:

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Obviously you know C~ on a personal level and he was truely nice to you and you feel good about it, well good on him.

Hopefully I haven't misrepresented myself. I think I have said repeatedly that I am a fan and what I say is from that viewpoint. Perhaps where the confusion has come in is me saying I have gotten to speak to him many times. I have, but it was on a fan level. I think I made that clear but I want to make sure of that. I'm not one to bs about knowing people better than I do. The personal level that might be coming through is because of things that were occuring to me at the time and the very kind way Con treated me as a fan. And a few times, going out of his way to speak with me.

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I guess my question for you is: Knowing that many of us here are not C's biggest fans anymore and that we really are only moderatly interested in his goings on and will continue to say negative or not so favorable things about him...does that make you feel bad or mad personally or that you feel the need to defend him to us?

Frankly, I didn't anticipate having many discussions on him here. It surprises me that his name comes up as frequently as it does. I'm on other boards that discuss him, so its not that I need a place to that here!

It does not make me mad to read this stuff. I would not have come here if it did. Because my opinion might be different, is that defending him? I said awhile ago that if I had something to contribute to the discussion I would. So I see it as giving my opinion, not defending. If I was defending him, I wouldn't be admitting to some of his faults as I did several posts above! However, I don't think that I see things in the same way as some of you do because of the more varied experiences.