Former Reality Show Contestants

Well, I do agree that Carrie really did walk off the AI stage into this fantasy of amazing acceptance from DJ's, media, and the industry. Not taking anything away from her talent (I do think she has an amazing voice) but man, as a Clay fan who hears nothing but crap from DJs, media who act like he is nothing but some karaoke singer from some dumb reality show, and hardly any respect from anyone in the biz, Carrie's immediate acceptance has been a hard pill for many Clay fans to swallow It's like "Why so easy for her and so hard for Clay?" Maybe being a stunning blonde with a hot bod is the answer. Or country music is just so much more open to new people regardless of how they got their start.

I remember reading a lot of M&G stories about Carrie being a real bitch. However, I was reading them on a Con fan-board and I remember her being hated by most Con fans anyway. So again, I don't really know. I do know the few times I have seen her interviewed on Leno, well, she just isn't very animated or interesting. Not much personality at all. That is where Clay and Kelly have it all over Carrie.

I love Kelly C too as you know. I so wish she had gotten, or at least listened to, better advise on this whole mess. My December is not her best effort, but all the promo for this CD cycle has been about her fights with Clive and the label rather than any really promo for the music. Too bad. After seeing her special with Reba, I am very excited at the thought of her doing a country/bluesy CD. I think that music shows off the beauty of her voice so much more than her "yelly" songs. When she sings without yelling her voice is truly a thing of beauty. For me she is my "female Clay". A gorgeous voice!

Carrie wasn't a bitch when I met her, but she wasn't overly warm either. I don't really care about her one way or another. That Before He Cheats song is now on our local "Bob" station not just country, so I hear it once in a while. It is actually a well-written song (although I know she had nothing to do with that.) She is just, whatever, to me. I'm very eloquent, huh?




From my understanding, anything that may have happened with those girl(s) was WAY before they worked for him on that tour last summer. Like months and months. They seem to like him. I don't know all the details.

I was with them in a place that didn't have other fans and they were just acting like friends.

FC, I do agree that Clay has had to work a lot harder for the respect Carrie just got without having to try at all. I think the country music community is easier, especially when you're a pretty blonde with no strong opinions about anything.

Kelly and Clay have it all over Carrie in so many areas, it's not even funny. Carrie is pretty with a passable voice. Kelly and Clay are real people with real talent. For God's sake, don't even get me started on Shania Twain. If she's country, then I'm an opera singer. Her name is the only thing country about her. She sings bubble gum pop with a twang. God Bless Mutt Lange who can make anyone a star.

And Shania isn't even her real name!! It's something like Eileen She's Indian from Cananda Yep, she's country all right!

Well, I watched the last two days of the B&B. What a let down that whole contest thing was. Not much of the songs were shown. Stupid tie. That freaking headband on Feebs!!! DUCKLIPS!! I won't be able to take much more of the ducklips. It's getting worse instead of better. I know some people at Rawkhands are flipping over his hair, but I still think it needs to at least be combed. The kiss was a big let down as you only saw the back of his head. Though I am sure that was enough for some people On well, I hope this storyline picks up. It wasn't even shown for a week and then it wasn't much to write home about.

I think the entire story has been so poorly written and so contrived that I actually was unable to finish watching it yesterday. Interestingly enough, we have a paternalistic male character whose behavior toward the much younger Phoebe has been really offensive to me - controlling, possessive, and authoritarian in the extreme.

Not Constantine, who seems to be primarily guilty of duck lips, an unkempt appearance, and real-life transgressions. The character I can't stand, who ultimately made me turn it off, turned out to be Rick.

I agree! The character of Rick is disgusting! I could not believe that whole scene where "if we win the contest you do it my way". Made me sick. She should have smacked him instead of nodding in agreement with her little girl smile. Talk about setting female empowerment back a few decades. She should have said "If you LOVE me Rick you will be supportive of my trying to fulfil my dreams and not give me altematives!"

Yes, I know there are worse things than the endless duck lips, but frankly they are just weird and unattractive. The messy hair is just MHO. I just do not like messy hair unless it is on the man I love and we just did something to make it messy!! Otherwise it just looks like a person who doesn't care about his or her appearance. I know length and style is strictly a matter of taste, but messy is just lazy IMHO. Or maybe we are to assume he just rode in on his Harley!!

firecracker wrote:

After seeing her special with Reba, I am very excited at the thought of her doing a country/bluesy CD. I think that music shows off the beauty of her voice so much more than her "yelly" songs. When she sings without yelling her voice is truly a thing of beauty. For me she is my "female Clay". A gorgeous voice!

Reba was the featured entertainer at the Pan American games that were held here several years ago. I saw her show and really enjoyed the performance. She has a lot of spunk and personality and I think she will be a great mentor for Kelly. Yes, Kelly on a country/bluesy CD would be great!!

sky wrote:

Bo, I hope will recover and get HIS music out, under another label.

sky, have you heard any news about what Bo is doing lately? I thought I read recently that he is going into the studio, but I don't know anything more about what has been happening with his career.

I was on his site a while ago, I should go back to check. I read he was working on a cd of HIS music. I really hope it works for him this time....because I love Bo. I also hope all his medical problems have settled down.

Here is one little bit taken from his site:

Bo Bice Album Artwork Contest , June, 29, 2007
We are happy to announce the Bo Bice Album Artwork Contest where you have the exciting opportunity to create the album cover artwork for Bo Bice's next album, tentatively entitled "American Blood", and which is due in stores on September 18, 2007


WooHoo.......September??? I'll do some more checking to see if that's still the timeline.

The HeldenFiles - Kellie and Me.

Quote :

Kellie and Me. Not long ago, I talked by phone to former American Idol contestant Kellie Pickler, who is among the performers featured in CMA Music Festival: Country's Night to Rock, airing at 9 tonight on ABC. (She's also scheduled for Good Morning America today.)

While riding on her tour bus and between bantering with her fellow travelers, Pickler said she had a great time at the festival, including a lot of time spent with a fan also named Kellie. Among other things, she took the fan over to her record company to talk to executives, since the fan wanted to know how to make it in the music business.

``I told her, `I don't know anything. Don't ask me,' '' Pickler said. But the dumb-bunny act that was part of her Idol stint -- remember her struggle with the word salmon? -- just doesn't fly anymore.

•

Cutting Back Comedy. Late last year, Fox announced plans to develop a sitcom with Pickler. Apparently her interest has waned.

``The sitcom's on the back burner,'' she said. ``Country music's my whole life now. I want to establish myself as a country artist while I have the chance.

``If I was working on a TV show, that would take 14, 15 hours a day. When would I fit my music in? When would I tour?''

She didn't rule out doing a comedy eventually, but she mentioned Reba McEntire as setting the right kind of path: country stardom first, then a TV show down the road.

But one thing she'd jump at right now: A guest-starring role on House, ideally as a doctor who solves a case Hugh Laurie can't. Suspecting a question about her ability to play such a role, she said, ``Believe it or not, I used to take nursing classes.''

•

Kellie and Me and Them. Last season, Pickler paid a return visit to Idol and generated comments on the air and off about her new, uh, look. There's been considerable speculation that she had some kind of breast enhancement. After much hemming and hawing, I managed to ask her what the deal was -- and she declined to answer.

``I've always enjoyed being the center of attention, and I was,'' she said. With a laugh, she added, ``Maybe I should say `we' were the center of attention. And as soon as I say yes or no, then I wouldn't be.''

Bucky has a hit!

Quote :

So here's some lead single success that I definitely wasn't expecting..."Different World" has made the top-10 of the Billboard/Radio & Records Country chart as of last week's chart. On Mediabase (which has different recurrent rules), the song is up to #7, with a pretty strong bullet. Color me impressed. "Different World" has been testing in the top-10 in national callout; early on, it seemed to be connecting with the male country audience in particular.

With thanks to snowdrop for the link (in Main), here's the EW article on post-Idol careers. It starts out by talking about what has gone down with the Season 5 contestants and then continues to discuss the factors that contribute to post-Idol fortunes. Some excerpts:

Quote :

The Idol music factory may be taking a more cautious approach with the latest season's power couple, Jordin Sparks and Blake Lewis. There's no plan yet for either to enter the studio (in past years, top finishers were already recording their debuts by now) — maybe because neither one seems like a sure thing. ''If they push Jordin to be an edgier pop act I think it'll do well, but if they go with the nice girl next door, I don't think it will do that well,'' says Niko, a DJ at New York's influential pop station Z100. And Blake? ''Everybody from Idol is going to have a chance. But if we want somebody to come on the station and beat-box, we'll get Justin Timberlake.''

Go ahead, pigeonhole yourself. Early in Idol's run, it was assumed that any finalist would be chasing a Kelly Clarkson-type mainstream pop career. No longer. Underwood and Daughtry have proved that defining your identity more narrowly can actually broaden your appeal, counterintuitive as that might seem.


Ironically, the best model for how to play nice with Clive might be the guy who's made the most of his rebel persona. When Daughtry approached Davis about writing his own material, they worked out a compromise. ''Clive had a totally different vision at first,'' Daughtry recently told EW. ''But I played him songs on my acoustic, and he said, 'Wow, it looks like you are more than capable to write this album.' So he set some things up with some collaborators. He was very supportive of everything I wanted; he never tried to fight me on it. [The co-writers] were awesome. I learned so much.'' Daughtry's success as a public badass and private compromiser may provide a template for future Idols: Save the glowering for the stage, not the conference room.

OK, the bolded part makes me want to vomit. VOMIT!

Clay comes in second, though clearly everyone felt he really won and he is ordered to do covers or NO CD!

Kelly wins. Has huge success and has to fight like mad to make the CD she wants and then she is treated like CRAP! and gets no support.

Taylor wins - can't make his own CD or songs he wrote.

Bo gets completely screwed and then DROPPED!

BUT, DAUGHTRY, who came in fourth (rightly or wrongly) gets EVERYTHING he wants! Treated like Rock Royalty.

I do.not.get.it. It sucks. It has made me bitter to the point where I cannot even look at Chris Daughtry without feeling sick. I know it is not his fault, but all this OTT praise and support for him while Clive kicks the others to the curb and ruins their careers and/or chances at careers - well, like I said. I.am.bitter. Seriously, I am not kidding - I cannot stand to even see the name Daughtry anymore

I understand your anger, Firecracker. What I get out of reading this is that Chris Daughtry is the one person they actually treated correctly. I will not get angry at Chris for that.

Maybe in a weird way Chris benefited from being the Chosen One who was "robbed" :barf in the eyes of the producers. Because he was not F2, it would not be a big crisis if he did not go platinum, so they could afford to take a risk and let him do what he really wanted to do. And because he was TCO, they were interested in developing him, unlike, say, Elliott.

Clay, who has not yet established himself as a strong songwriter, and did not come out of AI with a very strong musical identity (other than have a world-class quality voice) was forced to do as others demand. As he was an overwhelmingly popular F2, they wanted to control what he did. Taylor won. Bo was F2. They didn't think either wrote commercial songs, so they controlled what they did, too. Chris, a strong original songwriter who did not win, had more artistic freedom AND the support of the franchise. It's the only time that collection of elements has come together for one person.

I think, as much as I hate to say this, that they could be pushing for the second one to be Chris Richardson. I have a horrible feeling both Jordin and Blake could get thrown in the dumpster to make way for Timberfake. He's rumored to be a VERY good songwriter. Scuttlebutt is that Blake is demanding artistic freedom, while Jordin's parents want to be her managers, and AI is unhappy with both of these developments. Both of them are very delayed in starting their albums and the buzz on both is very much down from past years.

I think this franchise is beginning to kill itself with its own arrogance. If the big winner of AI6 turns out to be Chris Richardson, with the help of Clive and the AI staff, then they themselves will have deliberately rendered the importance of their own crown negligible for the second straight year. It's going to stop mattering who wins.

Chris Richardson, big winner of AI6. Because nasally is a form of commercial. This is solely a singing competition.

I'll be over in an amused corner listening to my Melinda downloads and wondering if J-Lo made good on her ambitions to give Sanjaya work.

I get that Clay wasn't a songwriter - I believe he can be or even is considering LAA and how everyone including non Clay fans love it, but what angers me is that he could have been allowed to record great original pop songs written by others as Kelly did on Breakaway or Carrie on Some Hearts. But no - forced to record cover or NOT allowed to even make a CD. THAT is waaaay different then just the fact that Clive had faith in Daughtry's song writing ability. WAY different in my book.

Bo and Taylor were popular for their style of music and then forced to record something completely different from their style or the style their fans wanted. How does that make any sense? Look at Rube's first CD. Hip Hop. How did he go from the soulful Velvet Teddy Bear to a hip hop artist? Well, we saw how that worked out for him.

The issue for me is not allowing these artists to be their personal best or even what the people loved about them. When was Bo ever interested in performing or recording sappy pop? Taylor was all soul. Rube was R&B. Yes, Clay was outstanding at ballads and light rock and his sophomore CD could have been ballads and soft rock of ORIGINAL music. AND why on earth give the ultimatum of "do it my way" or NO CD for years?

That was what I meant by what Clive did should be against the law. He would have been preventing Clay from making a living! A recording artist doesn't earn money if he is not allowed to record. Clive could have said "record the covers or you are free to sign with another label". You know David Foster is chomping at the bit to sign him and would write wonderful music for him!

Clive has sat on artists work before. Clive won't even let such established artists as Rod Stewart record songs he wants to. And Rod really is rock royalty. So yeah, the Daughtry thing really rubs me the wrong way. As I said, I KNOW it is not Chris's fault. I do not deny his abilities. BUT I do resent that he has been given everything he wants on a Platinum platter while others equally as deserving are being treated like crap. Hey, I respect the office of the presidency - doesn't mean I don't feel hurt and anger when I see our president. When I see Chris - I feel hurt and angry. Just the way it is. I really wouldn't have cared at all that Chris was treated like this if ALL the AIers were given the same respect and freedom to record the type of CD that they and their fans wanted. I think all artists deserve that or what is the point? If artist and label truly can't agree - then part ways. Neither Clay or the label can make money if he isn't allowed to record. What the hell is the point?

I agree, if they push Chris Richardson and do nothing for Jordin and Blake then AI will have become one big joke. How are those judges going to sit there and say it is a singing competition or Simon spout off about how important it is to be the winner? Why did something so good become such an upsetting mess?

I'm sorry, but after being in Chat and hearing how hurt, upset and defeated Clay felt about what happened with his sophomore CD... hearing he thought of quitting...hearing that if Clive forces the covers again he won't record.... well yeah, I wasn't in the mood for the Daughtry thing


Oh, and as long as I am ranting - take the video thing: Clay has two real videos for MOAM. Both stay on TRL top ten until they are retired. He was not even allowed to make one for ATDW. Taylor is the AI winner and is not even allowed to make one video from his debut CD. BUT Daughtry gets two expensive, well done vids (and I bet there will be more). Yes, YAY for Daughtry and his fans - but talk about unfair to someone with established success with his vids. Even Kat has had two nice, professional videos. Why none for Taylor?

Bringing this over from The Clack House:

Quote :

Just got this from CMST:

It was just a question of time until Constantine would have to drop by
in person to give Host Joel McHale a lesson in the "Smouldering Look"
department!

Check out Constantine on E! Channel's Talk Soup on Friday, July 27th
at 10pm!

Will you be watching GE??!!

I heard "Home" tonight on the radio driving home from visiting my dad in the hospital. I actually started to cry because I never hear Clay. That's how much this whole thing upsets me

Awww...it's OK FC. If Clive stays the fuck away, now that he knows he was WRONG, and Clay puts out another hit album, you'll hear him on the radio again!

Hmmm...I love "The Soup" and will be curious if GB is actually able to make fun of himself. Danny Bonaduce did an amazing job when he was on the Soup. I might just wanna see how GB measures up!

I hope you are right GE

I will be out late this Friday. I'll have to catch it on the net if I forget to tape it (which you know I will )

Abrahammy wrote:

Quote :

I think this franchise is beginning to kill itself with its own arrogance. If the big winner of AI6 turns out to be Chris Richardson, with the help of Clive and the AI staff, then they themselves will have deliberately rendered the importance of their own crown negligible for the second straight year. It's going to stop mattering who wins.

Wow, kill itself with its own arrogance... I love that! I think it already has stopped mattering who wins though.

Once Clay became a megastar and Ruben virtually faded from existence in SEASON TWO it stopped mattering. As a matter of fact, many others (like Bo) really didn't want to win, because you're more bound to the whole AI thing and have less freedom. I mean, they own your ass, but with the winner, they own your LIFE.

When my mom was in tears when Clay lost, I told her it was better for him just for that reason. I knew it then. Season two (which was actually the first season I watched).

firecracker wrote:

With thanks to snowdrop for the link (in Main), here's the EW article on post-Idol careers. It starts out by talking about what has gone down with the Season 5 contestants and then continues to discuss the factors that contribute to post-Idol fortunes. Some excerpts:

Quote :

The Idol music factory may be taking a more cautious approach with the latest season's power couple, Jordin Sparks and Blake Lewis. There's no plan yet for either to enter the studio (in past years, top finishers were already recording their debuts by now) — maybe because neither one seems like a sure thing. ''If they push Jordin to be an edgier pop act I think it'll do well, but if they go with the nice girl next door, I don't think it will do that well,'' says Niko, a DJ at New York's influential pop station Z100. And Blake? ''Everybody from Idol is going to have a chance. But if we want somebody to come on the station and beat-box, we'll get Justin Timberlake.''

Go ahead, pigeonhole yourself. Early in Idol's run, it was assumed that any finalist would be chasing a Kelly Clarkson-type mainstream pop career. No longer. Underwood and Daughtry have proved that defining your identity more narrowly can actually broaden your appeal, counterintuitive as that might seem.


Ironically, the best model for how to play nice with Clive might be the guy who's made the most of his rebel persona. When Daughtry approached Davis about writing his own material, they worked out a compromise. ''Clive had a totally different vision at first,'' Daughtry recently told EW. ''But I played him songs on my acoustic, and he said, 'Wow, it looks like you are more than capable to write this album.' So he set some things up with some collaborators. He was very supportive of everything I wanted; he never tried to fight me on it. [The co-writers] were awesome. I learned so much.'' Daughtry's success as a public badass and private compromiser may provide a template for future Idols: Save the glowering for the stage, not the conference room.

OK, the bolded part makes me want to vomit. VOMIT!

Clay comes in second, though clearly everyone felt he really won and he is ordered to do covers or NO CD!

Kelly wins. Has huge success and has to fight like mad to make the CD she wants and then she is treated like CRAP! and gets no support.

Taylor wins - can't make his own CD or songs he wrote.

Bo gets completely screwed and then DROPPED!

BUT, DAUGHTRY, who came in fourth (rightly or wrongly) gets EVERYTHING he wants! Treated like Rock Royalty.

I do.not.get.it. It sucks. It has made me bitter to the point where I cannot even look at Chris Daughtry without feeling sick. I know it is not his fault, but all this OTT praise and support for him while Clive kicks the others to the curb and ruins their careers and/or chances at careers - well, like I said. I.am.bitter. Seriously, I am not kidding - I cannot stand to even see the name Daughtry anymore

I love him! I am happy and proud of all his success because I think he deserves it. Not that the others don't but he is an amazing writer. I think his approach with Clive made a big difference. He already had Home written and several other songs. He went in and knew what he wanted and figured out a way to do it. If you can come out of AI that good,,I say Good on you!

His approach to Clive??? And do we know how the others approached him??? They are threatened it is Clive's way or no way! Chris said some magical words and got everything he wanted and Clay, Taylor and Kelly get thrown under a bus because perhaps they did not approach Clive the right way?? I don't think for one second it had anything to do with the way Chris approached Clive It was all about what Clive wanted. It is always about what Clive wants. In the book Hit Men Clive being a real bastard in the business is discussed. He will sit on the artist if he so desires, as he was going to do with Clay "make the cover CD or no CD at all". He said the same thing to Rod Steward, who has been vocal about what has been done to him. Rod's been making money for the label for over 40 years. I don't think he is being punished because he didn't approach Clive right about his desire to stop making covers. Barry wrote his own music for decades and now is only allowed to make cover CDs. Clive has decided to put these men in boxes and nail them shut. Not let them be the artists they want to be. It doesn't even make any sense . These cover CDs do not sell in the millions. They are however cheap for him to make because they are usually songs from his own stable. He doesn't "pay for play" or pay for videos. He knows they die-hard fans will buy them and he will make his profit. The artist however gets very little for his effort and it is hard to have huge tours when supporting cover CDs. Again, the diehards will go, but pretty hard to win new and/or young fans with covers. Covers of covers at this point.

I don't like to see art or artists stifled. Clay has a voice that Clive tried to silence with his ultimatum. Taylor was not able to use his. Or Bo. Kelly had to fight for her right to record what she wanted and her songs and Clive made it a point to let everybody who would listen (before it was even released) that he felt it was crap and he gave her no support. An artist who just sold over 10 million copies of her last CD and won grammys and yet he humiliated her in the media. (This is why even though I understood when she spoke out about Clive the way she did, and I even agreed with her, I worried about what she was doing to her career because we all know that the almighty and powerful Clive could make sure she didn't get to record again while in his clutches if he so desired)

It's not about if Chris is deserving, it is about all artists being deserving. Deserving to make the CD they wish to make and are proud of and not be told they can't work if they don't do it "his" way. The artist should at least be given the chance to be let go from the contract rather than told they will not be allowed to record for years!

SB, I am sure you do not read Clay's thread, but my upset over this situation has to do with what Clay has told fans in his sit down Meet and Greets during the tour he is currently on. (which thank god is going really well for him). Fans asked about his all important sophomore CD and Clay said Clive said you record covers or you will not record anything for at least 3 years. Clay wasn't sure what to do, almost quit the biz, did move back home, and in the end felt his career could not withstand a 6 year wait between his debut CD and his sophomore CD. He was up against the wall. He knew he was going to be critically creamed for a covers CD - and he was, but no choice at all. He told fans if Clive orders another covers CD he will choose not to record. Then we will lose him. How would you like to be told "You will teach a certain way, under certain conditions or you will not be allowed to teach for years"? And what if you felt the conditions were inappriopriate? What would you do? Most people if they do not like their boss or the way things are at work, they can look for new employment. An artist under contract can't. At least Bo was dropped and able to look for a new label to record the music he wants to - thank God for that. Maybe his health will improve with the decrease of stress.

So that is why I am so upset. Clay was hurt and distraught about his career. He is still nervous about the future. This kid came out of AI with a HUGE career! Clive halted it. I hope he gets major payback for his treatment of people when he crosses over - which can't be soon enough for me

Oh, and on the subject of deserving, Chris and Kat have gotten two really good and well done videos so far to support the singles. I think as the winner of the little dog and pony show Taylor deserved at least one video.

I doubt very very seriously if Clive told Clay that it was a CD of covers or he would not be allowed to have a CD out for three years. My guess is s that for whatever reason, he didn't like the songs already had recorded and that three years was probably the length of time he thought it might take to get new writers, new producers, new arrangers, etc.

Clive is all about the bottom line, and if he doesn't think your music is going to generate hits, he's not going to want you to record it. That's why Chris got his way. His own music was already radio-friendly.

Chris was 4th so he didn't have the contract restrictions the others do. What other kind of album could Clive of made Chris do? It is way softer than some of the songs on the show. I love it and I think it is great the way it is but it isn't like Chris could do another type of album really (except all hardcore). Bo did have one really big hit and I think what hurt him more than anything was his illness. He couldn't really tour or promote. I thought Kelly was saying now that Clive helped make her what she is or something to that effect. My point was Chris came in with some music already ready to go and Clive gave him the go ahead. If you are F1 or F2 you have to do what he says period. I have no idea why Kat is getting anything because her album is terrible and it is not even selling. Elliott is doing way better than Kat. Chris just doesn't deserve the haterade because he has good music. They gave Carrie good songs she didn't write any of them but no one is hating on her. She didn't write anything. Kelly sold millions of albums on the music Clive wanted her to record. Now, not so much. I thought Taylor put out a record he wanted. Is he saying he didn't now? Because when he was recording he was being adamant about getting what he wanted on his album from what I remember reading. I have no clue because I only read a bit of it in the beginning. He said he wouldn't do any songs he didn't want on the album. I am assuming that changed. I do not know why he does to Clay the things he does. It doesn't make much sense because he has an incredibly strong fan base. I just can't wrap my head around why he wouldn't want to make the money he could off of Clay. I think Clay has a beautiful voice. I don't like Clive nor am I defending any of his actions I just think if you come out of AI and actually make something of yourself..good on you.

I am not used to any of my reality TV people doing well so this is all new to me. I am happy for Chris. I am glad he was able to make the best out of the AI situation.

Quote :

So that is why I am so upset. Clay was hurt and distraught about his career. He is still nervous about the future. This kid came out of AI with a HUGE career! Clive halted it. I hope he gets major payback for his treatment of people when he crosses over - which can't be soon enough for me Twisted Evil

Firecracker, I will disagree with you there. Clive did not hate Clay's career. He was DROOLING over it. He made a big honking mess of slobbering all over him on Good Morning America when MOAM went platinum in two weeks. Clive just badly miscalculated what Clay was going to sell, that's all. He did not deliberately demand that Clay put out an album that he thought was unsellable. He made a massive mistake, but it was not sabotage.

Edited: Oh, I just read your post back in the morning. You said HALTED, not HATED! Sorry! Yes, Clive made some trainwreck decisions that really hurt Clay. He seems to do that to a lot of people. Elliott should probably be very glad he came in 3rd - well enough to get a recording contract with somebody else, not so well that Clive got his claws in him.

I am worried for Jordin.

SO, when I thought I might be going to NYC and I heard that C was going to be on that Mike and Juliet show, I applied for tickets. What the hell. I guess I wasn't quite quick enough on the draw, though, because someone who works there called to let me know I was first on the list for stand-by tix only. He MAY be singing outside, and if so, then anyone can attend. Oh boy. I would have to be there by 7:45 am.

Not sure if I'll do it because that would probably entail spending the night in Manhattan and I'm not sure if I'm going to spring for the $ for that.

The woman on the phone said she doubts that I would get in if it's indoors on stand-by because "Constantine's fans are really enthusiastic!" Really. I must be nuts.