Former Reality Show Contestants

Yeah Sky, I'm really hoping there'd be more JD in this one. I wish INXS would totally use JD to entice the fans again.

So Sky is out to kill us all dead with her avi every time she posts!

Bad Girl!!

MM, will you be going to see Elliott? I don't care how much multi-tasking you have to do, POST MORE OFTEN!! I miss you~

HA! If I have the pic as my avi, I can look at it more!!!!!!!!!

Frazzle- your hot heterosexual dream of Clay gave me a laugh! I am sure he's gay (in my heart), but it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

Constantine is not a Chatty Cathy when alone with a girl, (well at least not with my friend who was with him several times.) He is very mellow (and he never even smoked pot around her.) He likes to sing and take bubble baths. And that's our secret from GS, abrahammy! Remember I might be seeing you in Dallas. With my friend. Who is not happy with him now. But wants to see friends and Boggia.

I had my Constantine dream long before I knew anything about him personally. I felt GUILTY for the fact that my subconscious found him to be such a bore.

My Clay dream was certainly pleasurable, though why I had it flabbergasts me.

And Sky, I do not know yet whether having my senses awakened will turn out to be good or not. I have been known to do stupid things due to such awakenings. There are no candidates in my immediate world for me to do anything stupid with, though, so all is fine. SO far.

Quote :

Frazzle- your hot heterosexual dream of Clay gave me a laugh! I am sure he's gay (in my heart), but it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

Oh, I've thought so for a long time. There's a lot of stuff that has happened to him that don't make sense if he's straight.

Quote :

Constantine is not a Chatty Cathy when alone with a girl, (well at least not with my friend who was with him several times.) He is very mellow (and he never even smoked pot around her.) He likes to sing and take bubble baths. And that's our secret from GS, abrahammy!

Aw, darn. Those poor girls LITERALLY have nothing to discuss right now. Like, at all. The fact that he takes bubble baths would sustain the board for a week. SOON has come and gone and it was all kind of a big bust, I'm afraid. The writing of the soap was even worse than I expected and the album sold less than half of what I was expecting.

Not so bad for me. I visit here, lurk at the Clackhouse here and there, and bop on over to the Universe of Sanjaya, and then I lead a real life, so Constantine's current trough is not so big a deal. The Greekfest is still going to be fun.

I understand he's giving a cooking demonstration this time. Heh. As I said at GS today:



"Two orders of baklava, coming up! Hey, you want a CD with that? I'll throw in the signature for free!"

Coming soon - Constantine Maroulis tours Greek festivals all over the country, offering up recipes for moussaka, free samples of ouzo, and copies of his CD... fine food, fine spirits and fine music, all for the low, low price...

abrahammy wrote:

"Two orders of baklava, coming up! Hey, you want a CD with that? I'll throw in the signature for free!"

Coming soon - Constantine Maroulis tours Greek festivals all over the country, offering up recipes for moussaka, free samples of ouzo, and copies of his CD... fine food, fine spirits and fine music, all for the low, low price...

I'd take the free ouzo!

Quote :

I'd take the free ouzo!

Me too!! I do love Greek food, I have several things I make from handed down recipes from my MIL, and there all MY favorites!

Abrahammy, what do you mean by this?

Quote :

Oh, I've thought so for a long time. There's a lot of stuff that has happened to him that don't make sense if he's straight.

What stuff that has happened to him? Not tabloid crap because right now in the tabloids everyone is gay, especially that poor cutie in High School Musical even though he has a beautiful girlfriend. So what stuff are you talking about that has happened to him?

I have never had greek food except for baklava and greek olives No ouzo either.

You mean that GS has nothing to talk about it or the pinks? I haven't been to either board in ages.

Too bad the soap and CD didn't work out as all had hoped.

Quote :

What stuff that has happened to him? Not tabloid crap because right now in the tabloids everyone is gay,

No, no, not the lies. I think Rosie O'Bigmouth outed him. Also, when he started saying "I'm just not going to talk about it" concerning the gay stuff - I listened to that very carefully and I noticed that he absolutely refused to refute that he was gay. He said people would believe what they wanted to believe (which is true) and he sidestepped it, but he did not refute it.

And in the four years I've been watching him, he has never, ever - not once - been romantically linked to ANYBODY. Not so much as a date. I think he may be the only Idol for whom that is true. It isn't just that he doesn't advertise his romances as loudly as say, Constantine does. Taylor Hicks doesn't advertise, either, but we all eventually found the pictures of the girl on the beach. Clay just doesn't seem to have a love life. Unless... he does have a love life, but the people who have warmed his nights and his life are men, and he would prefer not to discuss it with strangers. There was some speculation that he had a fellow in his entourage named John with whom he was very close for a time. And there's little comments Kelly Clarkson has made that just don't make sense if Clay is straight. And the way both Vernon and his stepfather treated him make more sense if they are homophobic bozos. It's just this little hint and that, a steady stream over a long period of time, that are reconciled either by a string of fairly elaborate rationalizations or a simple explanation: he's gay.

And I think Lover All Alone may be a very poignant exposition of his predicament as a closeted homosexual man in a homophobic society; since he would lose half his fanbase if he came out of the closet, he must stay there, and it hurts. {{{Clay}}}

Knowing what a barracuda Faye is, I can certainly see how Clay may choose to remain in the closet as long as she is alive.

At any rate, I think a straight man would have either given a very casual photo op with his lady of the day, or would have stated that he was straight. The whole I-won't-confirm-or-deny-because-you've - decided gambit seems to be an avoidance tactic by a gay man.

Since I still think he's pretty damned wonderful, it is not important to me.

Quote :

You mean that GS has nothing to talk about it or the pinks? I haven't been to either board in ages.

GS is reduced to wondering what kind of porn movie he'd be in. I fled. Pinks - can't be bothered.

Frazz, I think Clay, gay or not, gives off a much more naturally sensual vibe than Constantine. I think your dream didn't mean that C is necessarily chatty, but that he really has no imagination. He doesn't make love. He screws. Not in a down and dirty sexy sweaty way. In a wham bam thank you maam way. In a "let's get this overwith so I can go read my fanfic and watch porn" kinda way. I think your dream meant "is this what I've built up in my head? Pffffffft.

I'm remembering when Ricky Martin tried to proclaim his heterosexuality with this woman, and by the end of it, I was more convinced that he was gay. It was all about long distances and how it didn't work out.

I also don't believe any of the gossip rag fodder. Just what I've seen with my own eyes. I do feel bad that he can never come out and say for sure. I also agree about Vernon and his stepfather. The kinda guys they were, I can definitely see this happening. I also agree that while mama is alive, there's no way in hell he could ever come out.

I also don't care. I still think he's sexy. It doesn't add or take away from my enjoyment of Clay the man and the performer.

I think GS is recycling old topics. I believe the porn movie thing went on some time ago. I remember after like months and months of never logging in over there, I logged in to look up some posts and noticed the word BAN written over all the buttons and I laughed so hard. Once I left there I never had the urge to post ever again. I also agree SOON passed a year ago. I'm actually amazed the album sold as much as it did. If he had only gotten off of his ass and gotten a major label THEN, things would have gone very different.

Here's the problem with the Rosie O'Donnell thing though. When he was on the show before, she referred to him as her "cutie patootie". But when she was talking about Ripagate she said that "if this was a straight man, if this was a cute man". To me, it was obvious that she meant to say that Kelly Ripa would not have reacted as she had if she thought Clay were straight or good-looking.

For all I know, she may well believe it , but I don't think her statement was meant to "out" him. I think it was to expose Ripa's hypocrisy. Hell, even PH called her on it recently.

The only comments I've ever heard Kelly make regarding Clay's sexuality is her telling DJs that they wouldn't think Clay is gay if they knew him.

Are you a member of Openly Clay, abrahammy? You're spouting an awful lot of their propaganda. To be fair, though, I imagine that if a poll were taken on whether Clay was gay- not one that could be spammed by either fans or haters - and the only answers available were yes and no, yes would win out by probably a not insignificant margin. And I've had more than one gay person in real life tell me that he's pretty much reciting chapter and verse from the closeted gay man handbook.

Somebody still needs to explain to me why it's homophobic not to believe Clay Aiken is gay or more accurately to point out incidents in the past where he was denied being gay or said he's straight. If I'm not mistaken, that's the reason why he now says he's not going to talk about it any more. People are not interested in the truth. They're interested in having their own point of view validated. And yes, that goes for fans who would still swear up and down Clay was straight if he were to announce he was gay on a prime time Diane Sawyer interview too.

Also, on the Faye thing, she was once asked why Clay wouldn't deny he was gay, and she said because there's nothing wrong with being gay and he didn't want to offend anyone. So I'm not sure where everyone gets this idea that she's this hideous rightwing homophobe.

By the way, yes, I do think you can be a fan and believe Clay is gay.

Badger - you are my new hero!

GE, as always I love you!

I read Abrahammy's post after midnight and a very tough day and just didn't have it in me to respond with my feelings about what she said. I have a lot to say about it and I will when I get the time.

I will say this much now, I thought EXACTLY what Badger thinks about the Rosie thing. That is what I thought the second I heard it. That is exactly what I feel was Kelly feelings. Kelly Ripa thinks Clay is gay and not handsome and THAT is why she didn't want Clay's hand touching her. Had it been Mario Lopez who did that she would have suck his damn fingers!

More later -

Quote :

Are you a member of Openly Clay, abrahammy? You're spouting an awful lot of their propaganda.

No, I am not a member of Openly Gay. I am not interested in a fanboard that seems to be primarily about proving he's gay, which seems very twisted to me. I am not spouting propaganda cannibalized from another site; Firecracker specifically asked why I thought Clay was gay and I just told you.

Quote :

And I've had more than one gay person in real life tell me that he's pretty much reciting chapter and verse from the closeted gay man handbook.

Yes, Badger. He is.

Quote :

Somebody still needs to explain to me why it's homophobic not to believe Clay Aiken is gay or more accurately to point out incidents in the past where he was denied being gay or said he's straight.

The problem arises when the possibility of him being gay enters the discussion as something against which he must be defended rather than a dialogue about the nature of one particular part of his personality. I may think he's gay, but I have no emotional investment in that being true or not - that's why I don't want to be involved in Openly Clay. My only emotional investment is in wishing he could live his life freely and openly without fear of professional damage or harrassment.

Quote :

If I'm not mistaken, that's the reason why he now says he's not going to talk about it any more. People are not interested in the truth.

If people were sensible, they wouldn't give a damn and this would not be an issue at all. It wouldn't matter what his orientation was. I do not understand why these idiots are so hell-bent on "proving" anything.

Quote :

They're interested in having their own point of view validated. And yes, that goes for fans who would still swear up and down Clay was straight if he were to announce he was gay on a prime time Diane Sawyer interview too.

At least with them I understand; for some he is a sexual fantasy, and him being gay might damage that; for others, unfortunately, their image of him as a really good man would be shattered if he is gay, and that is not fair.

Quote :

By the way, yes, I do think you can be a fan and believe Clay is gay.

So do you understand that I am not attacking him, that I'm sturdily on his side in this matter no matter what his orientation?

I don't think it is loudmouth Rosie's job to out someone. It is no one's freakin' business. I am a huge Anderson Cooper fan and everyone is saying he is gay. Out magazine put him and Jodie Foster on their cover and captoined it "Why won't Hollywood come out and play". If they CHOOSE to come out on their own it is one thing but being forced to is despicable. It doesn't matter to me one whit, Jodie Foster is still one of my favorite actors and I love Anderson. I just hate guerilla tactics.

Thanks, firecracker.

By the way, Abrahammy, the propaganda I'm referring to is the one about Clay's horrible homophobic fans who are preventing him from being who he really is. Its the attitude that only the fans who either believe he is gay or think it would be really cool if he was are true fans and that the other ones will drop him if he is gay.

I do think the alerting media about all the times he's either said he was straight or said he wasn't gay, is a bit counter-productive as I believe most people have already made up their minds and it does tend to get into the issue of what I call the "infantilization of Clay". That's the idea that Clay is a son/grandson who must who must be defended at all costs and at all times no matter how trivial. It's like the mom who always shows up to protect her "baby" whenever anyone is mean to him. Remember how popular that kid was? Not very.

Has anyone else here seen the Dixie Chicks movie about the fallout from the remarks Nathalie Maine made about Bush? Great movie, by the way. Anyway, it was fascinating to me to see how quickly their management moved to try to contain whatever damage occurred from those remarks. I kind of wonder if maybe the reason Clay didn't get that kind of support - at least not that any of us could see - is that people were afraid of looking stupid if those stories turned out to be true. The other thing too is that most of the people protesting the Dixie Chicks were from the Free Republic website or "the Freepers" which is a very conservative political website. So if you're defending the Dixie Chicks you're aligning yourselves against rightwingers. On the other hand, they may have thought if they defended Clay, wouldn't they be kind of aligning themselves against people with more progressive values?

Actually Abrahammy I didn't ask why you thought he was gay. I wanted to know what you meant by things that "happened to him" You said things "happened" to him that wouldn't happen to him if he were straight. I wasn't sure what that meant. I guess you mean his "fathers". I do not necessarily agree with that. I think Vernon (who beat Clay's mom) was just one hell of a crappy father and not a very good person. He didn't want anything to do with Clay from the time he was a baby and I don't think Vernon thought Clay was a gay baby. I think with his step-dad it is a well know fact that there is a lot of problems with "step" relationships, especially when the step-dad does have his own biological children. Neither men are living to defend their actions so I won't attach the homophobic label to them, though of course it is possible they were, just saying we have no idea what those men were like or what they believed or felt. I have had very straight friends (male and female) who had bad relationships with their fathers - biological and step.

As far as Kelly Clarkson, since I am a big fan of hers I did listen to her radio interviews and Badger is right about what Kelly said. I remember it very clearly. When a DJ asked her if Clay were gay she let out this great devilish laugh and said she knew he wasn't within 5 mins. and kept laughing. I remember it well because I always wondered what the heck he did/said in the first 5 mins. that gave her that impression and made her laugh like that when asked. Of course after watching all the banter vids from this last tour I think I know now. For one thing the boy can't keep his eyes off of large breasts! No wonder he talked so long to Regina in the audience that night Young pretty blonde, big boobs, low cut top bending over to talk to him from the balcony. I thought to myself "typical guy"

Anyway, a huge reason I felt less "Clay is gay" during this tour (and trust me there were times I thought he was) was how much he joked on stage about "finally telling the truth about himself". Holding hands with Q&A and the whole church revival thing. Honestly, I don't know Clay personally, but I know enough about him that if he were a closeted gay and upset/sad about it, I don't think he would make such a big joke about it. I think it would be too personal to him to be cracking up about it. Just my opinion and of course I could be completely wrong. However, if he were so disturbed by his situation that he wrote the hauntingly beautiful and sad Lover All Alone, I just don't think he would proceed that song with the whole "making fun of coming out" routine. Again, JMHO, but I think that song is more about his fear of being in love and hurt and rejected - and not necessarily by a man - just hurt. I think the boy had so much rejection in his young life that he does not trust easily. I think that is why he adore children. They love so unconditionally, especially those that are "a little different". Clay seems especially close to "the different" children.

Also, since I watch every freaking move the guy makes, when he is around women there is something about the way he touches them. The end of Tyra for example, the way he put his arm around the small of her back and looks into her eyes and softly says "I should sing to you" just came across so "smitten" and gentlemanly.

Then of course there is Kristy and Jaimie who both got divorced and started living with Clay after working for him and Jaymes got divorced while she was working with Clay and they have been pretty inseparably ever since! She spends all the holidays with Clay instead of her family which I find strange. So they may or may not have been girlfriends (just like me don't know if Amber was or "Sweater Girl" or the cute blonde he took to the last AMA's who he has been seen all around Raleigh with) but he sure does surround himself with beautiful women. Have you seen his dentist??? I should post a link to her site! Gorgeous blonde - what a surprise

Yes, he had a gay hairdresser who he seemed to be good friends with, but Jesse (his music director for the last three years) is gay also. I am not going to assume that they are an item anymore than I did with John. The music/show biz is full of gay hairdresser, designers, music directors, choreographers, etc. I wouldn't expect Clay to try to avoid hiring them to protect himself from rumors. He has no prejudices. He also employs many minorities. I think he enjoys including many types of people in his "family".

Yes Badger is right. He did deny the "gay" rumors and assumptions at first. I remember one interview where he clearly stated "people have their assumptions about me and their assumptions are wrong". I think he is tired of the question, and personally I think he is insulted by it. Let's face it, if you were a heterosexual man (if he is) how insulted and sick of that question would you be? Not saying it would mean a person has anything against gays, but clearly it would be an insult to the man's masculinity and that would sting most men.

So I don't know anything for a fact, but I see both sides. I see where people who don't follow him would think he was gay, but I also see things that point to him not being gay. I will love the kid till death either way. He is sweet and funny and good and talented and kind and just adorable. What more could one ask a human being to be?

And for the record, if he does ever get on Diane Sawyer and say he is gay - I will believe him but if he does get married and have kids I will not believe she is a "beard" like so many call every female he has been seen out with it. I also don't think Tom Cruise, Zac Efron, John Travolta, Jessie Metcalf, etc, etc. are gay with "beards" like all the gossip bloggers want us to believe!

Hey, I told ya I had a lot to say!

fc, a big "WORD" to your entire post!!


Also, Badger's comment:

Quote :

I do think the alerting media about all the times he's either said he was straight or said he wasn't gay, is a bit counter-productive as I believe most people have already made up their minds...

Most of us do not know Clay on a personal level and just see what is put in front of us in the media or what we see on stage. He admitted to having some effeminate mannerisms during one of the Diane Sawyer interviews, but that doesn't automatically make him a gay person. In RL, I have met and worked with women with more masculine mannerisms than a lot of men and vice versa and it was not an indication of their sexual preferences. Also, in my RL, some who appear to be very straight are openly gay. So...I don't think about whether someone is gay or straight because IMO, it doesn't matter and I don't think it's any of my business.

I actually don't take the times he's been spotted with women as proof of anything.

One thing that always drives me nuts is when people say "Why get so upset when people think he's gay? There's nothing wrong with being gay." I'm half-Japanese. When I was a kid, people who first met me would inevitably ask "are you Chinese or Japanese"? I'd tell them I was Japanese and most of the time, that was the end of it. But once in a while I'd get a person who kept asking it over and over again every time I met them or they would refer to me as "the little Chinese girl. So a little irritation would creep up in my answer. And then, I'd get the "what are you so mad about? There's nothing wrong with being Chinese". No, there's nothing wrong with being Chinese - if you're Chinese. But why should you have to let people think you are if you aren't? It's the same thing with the gay issue. Nothing wrong with being gay, but if you aren't, why shouldn't you be able to say you aren't without people impugning your motives?

Oh, I just remembered something about Kelly. Didn't she call him a "princess" once while they were being interviewed together? I think that might be considered a cryptic reference to Clay's sexuality if you didn't know about her radio interviews.

Someone mentioned Jodie Foster upthread. There's a really good interview with her in this week's EW.

Quote :

Someone mentioned Jodie Foster upthread. There's a really good interview with her in this week's EW.

Yes I know! I love her. Can't wait for her new movie next week!

I love Jodie too! I remember her as a child actress and it is amazing what an incredible and beautiful actress she grew up to be!

I used to watch Anderson Cooper but I cannot take the news channels anymore Too depressing

I love John Travolta. LOVE him. However, I'm beginning to believe the rumors about him are true. I believe Frazz has met him in person and can confirm this. Also, there's a very clear picture of him getting on a plane and a guy handing him some bags on the steps and John kissing him smack on the mouth.

Also, Zac Effron...yeah...I'm not gonna say anything yet, but...that was my first impression. I think they started those rumors that he was dating his gorgeous co-star awfully quick!

STOP SAYING ANDERSON COOPER IS GAY! Kidding!!! I just find him incredibly sexy. Also, Kathy Griffin outs everyone and she has never used the word gay to describe him. She does call him "yummy". I agree.

Look, I'm not saying that the people who don't believe Clay is gay are haters or homophobes, anymore than people who say he is gay are haters.

In all of these fandoms online, the propensity to defend the object of their desire is amazing. There are people on GS who won't defend their own child as vehemently as they defend Shmuckface.

Abrahammy, I totally get where you're coming from. Your points are well-stated and I do not believe for a second it matters to you one bit if he is gay and that you are a true-blue fan no matter what.

Look, if Clay is gay and he can't come out due to fear of fan loss, it is really sad. If he's straight and he keeps getting the "c'mon, just tell us! It's alright if you're gay" can be exasperating.

However, I disagree that he has come out and stated anything flatly and plainly. I believe he has skirted the subject with non-answers, and that's fine. It is none of my business. Just know that if you don't answer things flatly you will keep getting the question over and over. In the case where you answer emphatically, and the question keeps coming, now THAT would be annoying! If people refused to believe him and kept saying "c'mon. Straight? REALLY?" THAT would be annoying. However, as long as Clay remains a riddle wrapped in a mystery, he will get the question. He seems to handle it well and if/when he wants to tell the world what he is, I'm sure many will be listening with rapt attention.

Barry Manilow is still officially on the books as straight.

Given the length of his career, he might not be such a bad role model for Clay after all, given that most of the fans are women of all ages.

What's to gain by coming out? He would get some cheers from gay activist groups, but nobody else would jump on the Clay bandwagon because of him coming out, and he would, indeed, lose some fans.

When Merv Griffen died there was a huge deal made about the fact that he had been married, had kids, but later became exclusively gay.

John Travolta...when I met him (his wife was next to him) the amazing thing was that he was actually lisping and carrying on like a screamer, and he wasn't being funny. I was just so surprised that his persona, when not "on" would be so out there. That he also likes to have sex with men is not nearly as surprising to me.

But clearly he and his wife and kids live most of their life as a straight family.

I think great success and lots of money free people to have things exactly the way they want them to be, and lots of men like to have sex with lots of people and things (I won't mention animals, cuz they ought to be killed for that). Rich and successful politicians, who can't get away with it as easily, have always had girlfriends, boyfriends, racists have black kids, etc.

Just musing on all of this, but given my own hippie but completely mainstream sexually heterosexual self, I am always shocked and amazed, all 6 billion times I find out, when people are revealed to have much less traditional ways than mine. But they do. Often.

Quote :

I think great success and lots of money free people to have things exactly the way they want them to be, and lots of men like to have sex with lots of people and things (I won't mention animals, cuz they ought to be killed for that). Rich and successful politicians, who can't get away with it as easily, have always had girlfriends, boyfriends, racists have black kids, etc.

Just musing on all of this, but given my own hippie but completely mainstream sexually heterosexual self, I am always shocked and amazed, all 6 billion times I find out, when people are revealed to have much less traditional ways than mine. But they do. Often.

Here is my rule that has not failed me yet. Like, ever ever. The harder someone speaks out about something, whether it be gays or a certain race or a lifestyle or whatever, the more I think they are most definitely SCARED of something inside of them, or done some things they're ashamed of, so they join a fucking GROUP and speak, ON TELEVISION about it. The more someone screams about drugs and how bad they are and that people ought to be hanged by their fingernails for even thinking about taking them, you can bet they're totally addicted to something (Rush). If you scream about regular sex or gay sex or anything but meat-and-potatos sex with your spouse on Fridays at mutually-agreed-upon times and ONLY to make a baby, you are most definitely, a freak. Not a freak like freak of nature, but freak like "let's get freaky". The more puritanical, uptight, tsk-tsking, finger-wagging, screaming on your soapbox about how WRONG anybody's point of view but YOURS is, the more I think there's some serious shit you're trying to keep way in the back of the closet.

I belong to a few other fandoms - including GS - and I agree the urge to defend the object of one's affections isn't limited to "the Claymates".